Milestone-Proposal talk:RCA Radio Central

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Addition to Proposal: Refernce Section -- W2ots (talk) 03:19, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

RCA Radio Central References

1. Young, Owen D., "Opening of New Long Island Station of the Radio Corporation of America," General Electric Review, January, 1922. 2. Alexanderson, E.F.W., Reoch, A.E., Taylor, C.H., "The Electrical Plant of Transocean Radio Telegraphy," A.I.E.E. Journal, July 1923, 3. "The World's Largest Wireless Station-RCA Long Island," http://mt-shortwave.blog spot.com. 4. White, Thomas H., "United States Early Radio History," http://www.earlyradiohistory.us. 5. Taussig, Charles William, "The Book of Radio," pp312-317, 1922. 6. Williams, Ralph; Etter, Marshall; McGraw, Bob; Bacon, Chris, "Report from Radio Central: The Beginnings of Radio Central," The Antique Radio Gazette, 1922, Vol. 20, No.1. 7. Michelsen, Dan, "RCA's Research Organization, 1919-1942," Hagley Museum Web Site, 2016. 8. Klahn, Elmer O., Lundquist, Robert L., "World Largest Radio Transmitting Station," General Information Memo, RCA Communications, Inc. Rocky Point, NY, Undated. 9. Stiefel, Natalie Steifel, "In the Shadow of the Radio Towers," Looking Back at Rocky Point, Rocky Point Historical Society, Rocky Point, NY, 2003. 10. Etter, Marshall J., "Spotlight on Radio Pioneer Dr. Harold H. Beverage," Proceedings of the Radio Club of America, Inc., May, 1993. 11. Carter, Jr., Philip S., "Spotlight on Radio Pioneer Philip S. Carter," Friends of Long Island History, Distant Sparks, Autumn, 1903. 12. Sisler, Robert & Patricia, "C.W. Hansen, Prolific Inventor at RCA in Rocky Point," Friends of Long Island History, Distant Sparks, Winter 2005/2006. 13. Beverage, Harold D., Rice,Chester W., Kellog, Edward D., "The Wave Antenna," A.I.E.E. Journal, 1923. 14. I.E.EE., "Milestones:Alexanderson Radio Alternator,1904," https://ethw.org/Milestones:Alexanderson_Radio_Alternator,_1904, Dedicated 20 February 1992 - IEEE Schenectady Section. 15. Lindenblad, Nils Erik, Slotted and Directional Antenna Patents, Nos. 2791769, 2488419, 2414266,2400867. 1940s-1950s at RCA Radio Central. 16. Howeth, "History of Communications - Electronics in the U.S. Navy," Chapter XXX, The Navy and the Radio Corporation of America, U.S. Printing Office, 1963.

Updated Acknowledgement Section -- W2ots (talk) 20:17, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

The Acknowledgement Section has been updated to reflect the contributions of the proposal of Natalie Stiefel who is the President of the Rocky Point Historical Society and had published a history of RCA Radio Central and Robert Lundquist, also a member and who was the station engineer at the time of its closing.

Re: Updated Acknowledgement Section -- Jbart64 (talk) 16:41, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

I fully support the Milestone. It is very well documented, and the achievements at Radio Central deserve recognition for their legacy to radio communications. I note that the plaque location will be in a school building. Will it be part of, or near, a historical display, or can it be located on the exterior of the building for 24 hour access? These are simply thoughts to consider and not a criticism. I have a two small edits to suggest as shown below in brackets:

On November 5th, 1921, President Harding’s telegraphic transoceanic message inaugurated the world’s most powerful transoceanic radio facility, RCA Radio Central[, located] on more than 7000 acres at Rocky Point and Riverhead, NY. Its Alexanderson 220KW, 18.3KHz transmitters and Beverage long-wire receiving antennas provided reliable worldwide radio communications[,] and its research laboratory developed diversity radio reception, rhombic and folded-dipole antennas, the first transoceanic single side-band channels and commercial FAX service.

David Bart

Re: Updated Acknowledgement Section -- Administrator4 (talk) 18:44, 23 May 2019 (UTC)====

In the interests of bringing the citation in under the 70-word limit, I would recommend deleting the phrase about the acres, as that does not pertain to the technical achievement. My recommended citation is:

On 5 November 1921, President Harding’s telegraphic transoceanic message inaugurated the world’s most powerful transoceanic radio facility, RCA Radio Central, at Rocky Point and Riverhead, NY. Its Alexanderson 220KW, 18.3KHz transmitters and Beverage long-wire receiving antennas provided reliable worldwide radio communications. Its research laboratory developed diversity radio reception, rhombic and folded-dipole antennas, the first transoceanic single side-band channels, and commercial FAX service.

Re: Re: Re: Updated Acknowledgement Section -- W2ots (talk) 23:00, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Replace this text with your reply

-- W2ots (talk) 23:02, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

The following posts were reviewed by the Rocky Point Historical Society and the IEEE Long Island Section Milestone Committee:

The plaque as stated by the school district in their letter of agreement will be mounted in the lobby of the Frank J. Carasiti Elementary School. The location was chosen as it is visible, secure and on the former RCA property. The school grounds also includes the historic “Marconi Shack” which for many years was on the original RCA Radio Central grounds and subsequently restored by the Rocky Point Historical Society. Follow the link http://www.rockypointhistoricalsociety.org/marconi-building for the story of the Marconi Shack and its restoration.

Both the Rocky Point Historical Society and the IEEE Long Island Section Milestone Committee strongly recommend that the reference to the 7000 acre size of the RCA Radio Central facility in the citation be retained. The huge size of the facility was a defining and required feature needed to install the very long antennas required by the ~17KHz Alexanderson transmitters at the Rocky Point site and the long wire Beverage wave antennas for receiving at the Riverhead site.

Revised Citation -- W2ots (talk) 17:11, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Citation Revision -- W2ots (talk) 17:00, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

In response to the advocate's and milestone administrator's comments the proposed citation has been revised to meet the 70 word requirement while retaining the key phrase referring to the size of the facility dictated by the long antennas for the low Alexanderson transmitter frequency and the long-wire Beverage receiving antennas.

Revised Citation:

On November 5th, 1921, President Harding’s telegraphic transoceanic message inaugurated the world’s most powerful transoceanic radio facility, RCA Radio Central on more than 7000 acres at Rocky Point and Riverhead, NY. Its Alexanderson 220KW, 18.3KHz transmitters and Beverage long-wire receiving antennas provided reliable worldwide radio communications and its laboratory developed diversity radio reception, rhombic and folded-dipole antennas, the first transoceanic single side-band channels and commercial FAX service.

With the revised citation, it is believed that the proposal meets the requirements for its approval by the advocate and subsequent consideration by the history committee.

Re: Revised Citation -- Jbart64 (talk) 15:45, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Some final recommended edits are shown below in the brackets, resulting in 70 words:

On November 5th, 1921, President Harding’s telegraphic transoceanic message inaugurated the world’s most powerful transoceanic radio facility, RCA Radio Central[. Located on more than 7000 acres at Rocky Point and Riverhead in New York, its] Alexanderson 220KW, 18.3KHz transmitters[,] and Beverage long-wire receiving antennas provided reliable worldwide radio communications[. The facility's] laboratory developed diversity radio reception, rhombic and folded-dipole antennas, the first transoceanic single side-band channels[,] and commercial FAX service.

Dave Bart

Expert Letter #1 -- Jbart64 (talk) 16:15, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

From: Mike Molnar <mmolnar@diagnostic-services-inc.com> Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 3:42 PM To: Julia & David Bart <jbart1964@gmail.com> RE: RCA Radio Central

To: The IEEE Milestone Committee-

I am a radio historian with the Antique Wireless Association and have published many articles on topics involving radio history. I reviewed the Milestone proposal and its supporting documentation, and I performed additional reading about RCA’s Radio Central.

I am happy to see RCA’s Radio Central is on track to receive well deserved recognition with the IEEE milestone. I agree with all of the technical achievements listed in the text of the plaque. These achievements were the result of a confluence of many factors. With the national political need to create RCA and to control the Alexanderson Alternator, the foundation was laid to build Radio Central. The growing demand for radiograms and facsimile transmissions created the initial demand for Radio Central. The revenues generated would fund the project and the research. As the research brought innovations to improve throughput, the improved throughput quickly created the funds for further research.

It is impressive that this business model continued to be profitable for so many years. Radio Central also became the political and the economic voice of the United States. The strong voice of Radio Central bridged the oceans to bring us closer to other world powers and to bring our products to the rest of the world. During this period our country grew into a world super power. Enabled by these technical achievements, Radio Central announced to the world that the United States was ready to assume that role.

Finally, I note that the Antique Wireless Association published a historical survey about RCA Radio Central in the AWA Review in recognition of the facility’s 75th anniversary. See “Commemorating the 75th Anniversary of Radio Central” by Christopher Bacon, AWA Review, 1996, Vol. 10, p. 151-187.

In sum, I fully support the Radio Central Milestone proposal. It is well documented, and the achievements at Radio Central deserve recognition.

Michael Molnar 134 Observatory Rd. Glen Gardner, NJ 08826

References -- Administrator7 (talk) 17:46, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Per the instructions for nominations: "You must supply the texts or excerpts themselves, not just the references." Here are links to webpages containing the listed references:

Ref. 1: Opening of New Long Island Station of the Radio Corporation of America (Excerpts) https://books.google.com/books?id=pc93SgIp02IC&lpg=RA1-PA52&ots=Qlnov1Sfd-&dq=%22Opening%20of%20New%20Long%20Island%20Station%20of%20the%20Radio%20Corporation%20of%20America%22&pg=RA1-PA52#v=onepage&q&f=false.

Ref. 2: The World's Greatest Radio Station. Taussig, Charles William. “The Book of Radio,” 1922, pages 312-327. https://earlyradiohistory.us/1922RCA.htm.

Ref. 3: The Beginnings of Radio Central. Williams, Ralph; Etter, Marshall; McGraw, Bob; Bacon, Chris; “The Beginnings of Radio Central”, The Antique Radio Gazette, Spring, 1992. http://www.antiquewireless.org/uploads/1/6/1/2/16129770/30-the_beginnings_of_radio_central.pdf.

Ref. 4: Birth of the Radio Corporation of America. Howeth, Captain L.S., Chapter XXX Excerpts, “History of Communications-Electronics in the United States Navy,” U.S. Government Printing Office, 1968. https://earlyradiohistory.us/1963hw30.htm#30sec6. [Please correct the spelling of the author's surname in the submitted list of references.]

Ref. 5: Design of Original RCA Radio Central Facility. Alexanderson, Reoch and Taylor, “The Electrical Plant of Transocean Radio Telegraphy,” A.I.E.E. Journal, July 1923. [This is in the public domain as of 1 January 2019; the article has been scanned to PDF.]

Ref. 6: Philip S. Carter, “Radio Transmission System,” Patent No. 1623966, filed June 25, 1923. https://patents.google.com/patent/US1623996A/.

Ref. 7: Jonathan Coopersmith, Faxed: The Rise and Fall of the Fax Machine (Baltimore, MD, USA: Johns Hopkins University Press, 2015). Relevant pages have been scanned to PDF.

Ref. 8: Hugh Aitken, The Continuous Wave: Technology and American Radio, 1900-1932 (Baltimore, MD, USA: Johns Hopkins University Press, 1985). Selected relevant pages on Radio Central have been scanned to PDF; much of the book covers the creation of the Radio Corporation of America.

Ref. 9: James Brittain, Alexanderson: Pioneer in American Electrical Engineering (Baltimore, MD, USA: Johns Hopkins University Press, 1992). Relevant pages on Radio Central have been scanned to PDF.

Ref. 10 Jeff Hecht, City of Light: The Story of Fiber Optics (New York: Oxford University Press, 1999). Relevant pages on Clarence Hansell's fiber optic patent have been scanned to PDF; this can replace the reference to Cavalo in the narrative.

Ref. 11 Ludwig A. Batterman, "Transmission line," Patent No. 2,153,527, filed July 21, 1936. https://patents.google.com/patent/US2153527A/en.

Ref. 12 Arthur A. Oswald, "Early History of Single-Sideband Transmission," Proceedings of the IRE, December 1956, p. 1676-1679. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4051940.

Acreage -- Administrator7 (talk) 18:37, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

The citation states "more than 7,000 acres" in Rocky Point and Riverhead; the narrative assigns 7,000 to Rocky Point alone and 2,000 to Riverhead. The citation total should be revised to conform with the narrative.

Re: Acreage -- Jbart64 (talk) 19:43, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

There may be other small holdings as well, depending on how the acreage is precisely measured or allocated. Use of "more than" makes the point about the scale of the landholdings while not getting lost in a precise measurement of the land or its assignment. I would still use "more than" or "approximately". If we want to reflect both facilities, then 9k is acceptable. Dave Bart

Expert Letter #2 -- Jbart64 (talk) 19:33, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Re: IEEE Milestones Letter 9-2019 From: James Kreuzer <wireless@pce.net> 1:52 PM (34 minutes ago) To: David & Julia Bart <jbart1964@gmail.com>


To: IEEE Milestone Committee

NEW WIRELESS PIONEERS 1541 BRONSON ROAD GRAND ISLAND, NY 14072 716-773-4999 WIRELESS@PCE.NET

September 13, 2019

I have been the Librarian and Assistant Curator for the Antique Wireless Association (AWA) for the past 10 years. I have been a rare book dealer for 35 years and a wireless historian since 1975. I have written numerous historical articles for the AWA Journal and AWA Review throughout the years.

I have examined the Milestone Proposal for Radio Central and completely support the recognition of a station that has had a profound historical significance for American communications at the dawn of the broadcast era.

RCA Central was the most important, largest and most powerful radio station in the world up to its time, and provided communications with all corners of the world.

At the AWA Museum, we have been given the honor to preserve the original Riverhead Diversity Radio Receiver. Every time I look at it I am overcome with pride that such a huge piece of apparatus demonstrated technological innovations which played such an important part during the construction of the most advanced wireless station in the world in its day. Our museum cannot always find space to preserve artifacts over 6 feet high and 6 feet wide, but the historical value of this incredible receiver outweighs any other concerns!

In my personal collection, I have preserved and treasure the Radio Central scrapbook that was assembled by Edward J. Nally, President of the Radio Corporation of America, during the construction period of Radio Central. Nally had the incredible foresight to collect telegrams, letters, photographs, invitations and complimentary letters from inventors, leaders and engineers from all around the world.

After perusing this important collection, and reading the available articles on the history of the station, I have come to the conclusion that Radio Central deserves the IEEE Milestone Award. It would also be perfect timing to recognize the 1921 inaugural opening of Radio Central as we draw near to 2021.

The following inaugural message was sent by President Harding on November 5, 1921: To be able to transmit a message by radio in expectation that it may reach every radio station in the world is so marvelous a scientific and technical achievement as to justify special recognition. In 1921, Radio Central’s achievement was witnessed by 400 scientific and technical dignitaries and guests.

I believe that it is entirely fitting as we near the 100th anniversary of this momentous achievement that the IEEE would choose to honor Radio Central with their Milestone Award.

I fully support the milestone proposal and the wording of the claim is accurate.

Best Regards, James Kreuzer, N2GHD

Citation and details of the plague -- JaninA (talk) 11:41, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

I suggest adding words as below at the end of the first two sentences. "at that time" and "to US Navy" respectively. And removing words about acreage, as suggested.

"On November 5th, 1921, President Harding’s telegraphic transoceanic message inaugurated the world’s most powerful transoceanic radio facility, RCA Radio Central, that time. Located at Rocky Point and Riverhead, NY, its Alexanderson 220KW, 18.3KHz transmitters and Beverage long-wire receiving antennas provided reliable worldwide radio communications to USA Navy. The research laboratory developed diversity radio reception, rhombic and folded-dipole antennas, the first transoceanic single side-band channels and commercial FAX. service.

Also a part of the Nomination is missing (plague mounting and site accessibility)


Agreed by the Advocate subject to the proposer's consent. - Dave Bart

Re: Citation and details of the plague -- W2ots (talk) 16:32, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Our partner, the Rocky Point Historical Society, has been requested to obtained the information from the Rocky Point School District.

While the Navy was instrumental in the creation of RCA to protect its communications from foreign countries, the RCA Radio Central facility was created under the leadership of David Sarnoff for the purpose of being the world's primary source for commercial communications. The proposal provides the dates of Radio Central's operation 1921-1978. It can be added to the title if desired: "Milestone-Proposal:RCA Radio Central, 1921-1978."

Mort Hans, Milestone Proposer, L.I. Section.

Re: Citation and details of the plague -- W2ots (talk) 00:31, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

The plaque mounting and site protection/security information from the Rocky Point Union Free School District which follows completes the milestone proposal. The proposal has been updated accordingly.

Rocky Point Inbox x OBrien, Scott <SOBRIEN@rockypoint.k12.ny.us>

4:57 PM (3 hours ago)

to me, nataliast@aol.com, Jonathan

Mr. Hans,


Natalie reached out to me regarding two questions for the RCA Radio Central Milestone Proposal.


Details of the plaque mounting:

The plaque will be mounted on the main entrance hallway in the vestibule of the Rocky Point High School.


How is the site protected/secured, and in what ways is it accessible to the public?

The High School is locked down at all times during the school day and visitors can enter into the school by displaying a valid license. The building has security personnel and an alarm system.


I hope this information helps and we look forward to seeing this proposal be awarded.


Best regards,

Scott O’Brien


Scott O’Brien, Ed.D.

Superintendent

Rocky Point Union Free School District

90 Rocky Point – Yaphank Road

Rocky Point, NY. 11788

sobrien@rockypoint.k12.ny.us

631-849-7561


Notice to Recipient: The information contained in this e-mail message may be confidential. Distribution of the material contained in this e-mail message may violate the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act, the Freedom of Information Law, Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 and/or other applicable state or federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this message and any attached documents in error, that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the message and documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us by telephone immediately and delete it and any accompanying documents.

editing RCA Radio Central proposal -- Amy Bix (talk) 18:14, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

I think this is another of those citations that currently, as Allison has pointed out, underplay the significance, esp. for anyone not thoroughly grounded in the technical history. Can't we convey size without giving actual acreage? - I really don't see why that is important. And I think the word "inaugurated" is a bit too vague. How about:

On November 5, 1921, President Warren Harding sent an international telegraphic message that opened the world’s largest and most powerful transoceanic radio facility, RCA Radio Central, at Rocky Point and Riverhead, NY. Over the next seven decades, RCA Radio Central provided reliable worldwide radio communications. Its laboratory developed diversity radio reception, rhombic and folded-dipole antennas, the first transoceanic single side-band channels, and commercial FAX service.

Citation -- JaninA (talk) 10:59, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

I kept rereading this nomination and the Citation. And I came to conclusion that the US President's name is not the most important here. Also the current citation gives an impression that the system was for society to use, while the system was for US Navy only as I read the nomination. Also, we know for sure it was the most powerful the time it was developed. We do not know what happened later, even in USA. So it is better to add "that time". I like parts of Amy's Citation too. But if we use 70 years time period then the question arises why the timing in the title is only for two years 1921-1923... Hence my proposal is as below: "On November 5th, 1921, the world’s most powerful that time transoceanic radio facility, RCA Radio Central, was inaugurated. Located at Rocky Point and Riverhead, NY, its Alexanderson 220KW, 18.3KHz transmitters and Beverage long-wire receiving antennas provided reliable worldwide radio communications for USA Navy. Over next years RCA research laboratory also developed diversity radio reception, rhombic and folded-dipole antennas, the first transoceanic single side-band channels and commercial FAX service".

It may feel that there too many technical details, but on the other hand this is what makes the Milestone interesting...

Re: Citation -- Jbart64 (talk) 19:22, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

I propose: "On November 5th, 1921, the world’s most powerful transoceanic radio facility at the time, RCA Radio Central, was inaugurated. Located at Rocky Point and Riverhead, NY, its Alexanderson 220KW, 18.3KHz transmitters and Beverage long-wire receiving antennas provided reliable worldwide radio communications. Over next years RCA research laboratory also developed diversity radio reception, rhombic and folded-dipole antennas, the first transoceanic single side-band channels and commercial FAX service". Dave Bart

Re: Re: Citation -- Jbart64 (talk) 19:38, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Revised: "On November 5th, 1921, the world’s most powerful transoceanic radio facility at the time, RCA Radio Central, was inaugurated. Located at Rocky Point and Riverhead, NY, its Alexanderson 220KW, 18.3KHz transmitters and Beverage long-wire receiving antennas provided reliable worldwide radio communications. In succeeding years RCA's research laboratory also developed diversity radio reception, rhombic and folded-dipole antennas, the first transoceanic single side-band channels and commercial FAX service". Dave Bart

Thanks -- W2ots (talk) 16:42, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks to everyone who provided comments and suggestions that contributed to the History Committee's approval of the proposed milestone. It was most appreciated and surely resulted in both a better milestone and citation. Mort Hans.