Milestone-Proposal talk:Emergence of public radiobroadcasting with experimental station XWA, 1919

Milestone Review -- Jbart64 (talk) 17:54, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

I fully support the milestone, but express caution on the language. The supporting articles are reasonable but are a bit old. In particular, claims hinge on the concept of "broadcasting" and that word's specific interpretation. This remains an unresolved area, where proponents of various claims have strong opinions. For example, KDKA has made many claims that can be disputed and even refuted, and the De Forest or Fessenden proponents have been debating their claims for many years.

--Consider an article in the Electrical Experimenter, Jan. 1917, p. 650 that supposedly includes the first reported use of the word "broadcast" which is associated with scheduled programming. The broadcast was provided by De Forest when 7,000 amateurs listened to US election returns. Note the year of this article. What constitutes programming, scheduling, an amateur versus a general public audience, etc.?

--Additional research about some of the claims of firsts in radio are revealed in: [1] J. S. Berg, The Early Shortwave Stations: A Broadcast History Through 1945, (Jefferson, NC: McFarland & Co., 2013) p. 13, 20; [2] A. Balk, The Rise of Radio From Marconi Through The Golden Age, (Jefferson, NC: McFarland & Co., 2006) , pp. 34−39; [3] J. E. Baudino, J. M. Kittross, “Broadcasting’s Oldest Stations: An Examination of Four Claimants,” Journal of Broadcasting, Vol. 21, No. 7, Winter 1997, p. 61; [4] D. Clark, “WHA Madison-Is It Really The Nation’s Oldest Station?,” AWA Review, Antique Wireless Association, Vol. 28, 2015, p. 252.

--Robert Murray, the last cited source in the supporting pdf submitted with the proposal put it well when he said, "The matter is unlikely to be solved definitively, however, since it hinges on a definition of what could be considered "broadcasting" at that time." (pdf, last page, pg 132)

I also note the Milestone does not distinguish between radio telegraphy and radio telephony or radio broadcasting. These terms have specific, but frequently blurred, meanings. Here I ask a question: do we need more clarification? The sentence implies … radiobroadcasting WITH ITS XWA … This may be sufficient to prevent further debate by limiting the interpretation only to XWA, rather than any other broader claim over the world of radio.

Therefore, I suggest the following edits to the milestone wording: On this site, the Marconi Wireless Telegraph Company of Canada experimented [INSERT with DELETE the] technology that led to the establishment of radiobroadcasting with its XWA Licensed Experimental Station, which later became CFCF. In 1919, XWA was among the first stations [DELETE worldwide] to regularly broadcast programs for the public, consisting of recorded music, news, weather and live concerts. [DELETE , thus democratizing the use of radio waves for all.]

Dave Bart, Milestone Advocate

Re: Milestone Review -- GhyslainGagnon (talk) 23:25, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Bart,

I apologize for the significant delay in responding to your contribution. There was nothing conventional about 2020... I was called to take additional duties as Dean of Research at our University (ÉTS) while dealing with the COVID upheaval. Let us undertake 2021 more optimistically!

I very much appreciate you having taken the time to review in detail our Montreal-MWTCC-XWA Milestone proposal and having provided us with insightful and documented comments. We agree with your proposed wording:

On this site, the Marconi Wireless Telegraph Company of Canada experimented with technology that led to the establishment of radiobroadcasting with its XWA Licensed Experimental Station, which later became CFCF. In 1919, XWA was among the first stations to regularly broadcast programs for the public, consisting of recorded music, news, weather and live concerts.

As enthusiasts about the history of radio, we were thrilled to read about your view on the topic. We cannot help ourselves but to contribute to the discussion below. Most of the material is taken from: [A] D. Couillard, LA RADIO, UNE HISTOIRE D’INNOVATION CANADIENNE - EARLY RADIO INNOVATION IN CANADA, (Bibliothèque nationale du Québec, 2020), ISBN 978-1-7770988-0-3 Available: https://moeb.ca/en/produit/early-radio-innovation-in-canada

--Consider an article in the Electrical Experimenter, Jan. 1917, p. 650 that supposedly includes the first reported use of the word "broadcast" which is associated with scheduled programming. The broadcast was provided by De Forest when 7,000 amateurs listened to US election returns. Note the year of this article. What constitutes programming, scheduling, an amateur versus a general public audience, etc.?

Indeed, several radiobroadcast events happened between the famous experiment of Fessenden in 1906 and the closing for cause of war of early European and Canadian stations in fall 1914 and of early US stations in spring 1917 ([A] pp. 40-43). What makes XWA special was that it initiated what may well have been the first uninterrupted broadcast programming in the world after the war and the corresponding lift of the government restrictions, contributing to launching the worldwide race for regular voice and music broadcasting which since then, never stopped.

--Robert Murray, the last cited source in the supporting pdf submitted with the proposal put it well when he said, "The matter is unlikely to be solved definitively, however, since it hinges on a definition of what could be considered "broadcasting" at that time." (pdf, last page, pg 132)

Agreed. As reported in [A], “these pioneering years remain poorly documented” and one cannot express any absolute opinions on these early years of radiobroadcasting emergence.

I also note the Milestone does not distinguish between radio telegraphy and radio telephony or radio broadcasting. These terms have specific, but frequently blurred, meanings. Here I ask a question: do we need more clarification? The sentence implies … radiobroadcasting WITH ITS XWA … This may be sufficient to prevent further debate by limiting the interpretation only to XWA, rather than any other broader claim over the world of radio.

Agreed. We were focusing on the solid establishment of voice and music broadcasting. There is general agreement (at least in our region of the world) that in the most part of the XXth century, the term “radio” has traditionally been associated with voice broadcasting, while the term “wireless” has been associated to telegraphy. The term “wireless” has made a comeback in the late XXth century with the emergence of Mobile/Cellular/Wi-Fi technologies. While the word “broadcasting” could certainly lead to confusion in that context, we believe that the word “radiobroadcasting” should be clear enough to most interested by early radio history.

--GhyslainGagnon (talk) 23:25, 11 January 2021 (UTC)Ghyslain Gagnon, Ph.D., Eng. Dean of Research Professor, Department of Electrical Engineering, ETS Montreal Montreal, Canada